Not having a good day...

[keithmac]

Well I have had my "restored" 67' for 7 months now. 20 miles , $6000 and several hundred hours of ( mostly ) enjoyable work correcting problems, faults, shoddy work ,non-restored bits and today I found this on #6 big end.
Some one please lie to me and tell me I can fix this. I have seen shallower grooves on a record, for those of you who remember what they are.
Sadly the engine has been redone , supposedly 1500 miles and 13 years ago. 2nd over Pistons look new ,connecting rod big ends still have the measurement written in marker on them. shiny marks from balancing and matching are still clearly visible. new star shaped con bolts are in place ( 1st over rod bearings ) I am hoping not to have to remove the engine if I even can in my tiny garage. It will be a royal pain
Sigh....

[andrewh]

Oh dear I feel for you. What a shame. I fear that you will be having to take the engine out for this one. What made you strip it down and have you checked the other big ends? I assume it was knocking? Are the grooves in the journal or just the shell? It may have picked up for some reason and its just a slight possibility that you can polish the journal with flour paper, but frankly, I suspect it will be a strip down.

[Hugo]

Did anybody think to clean out the centrifugal traps in the crankshaft? I did mine recently - I had the bright idea of poking in there for any signs of sludge build-up before deciding whether to take the plugs out. It all looked nice & clean, but when good sense finally prevailed & I 'persuaded' the plugs to leave home, the traps were all at least half-full of crud.

[Hugo]

By the way, how did you 'find' this? It's not sort of thing you would expect to stumble across by chance ;) It actually looks like one of those hidden nasties that would keep running without giving any symptoms, but presumably it wasn't?

[andrewh]

By the way, how did you 'find' this? It's not sort of thing you would expect to stumble across by chance ;) It actually looks like one of those hidden nasties that would keep running without giving any symptoms, but presumably it wasn't?

`Thats what I asked Hugo...you need to read the posts properly

[Hugo]

I read the posts. But didn't see an answer.

[keithmac]

Yes, a light knock on start up till warm then no symptoms.
This bearing check snowballed from a loose upper timing chain issue, ( gouges in the head ),
which snowballed from a leaking intake valve guide issue on 1 and 2 , which snowballed from a seized carb issue, which started as a miss at idle and some blue smoke. so seven months working on her only to find this.
I had thought it prudent to check the big ends considering the light knock while I had the sump off to change the front seal ( while I had the timing cover off )
Now , I need a break and a beer while I consider my next step.
I had really hoped to just wax it and drive it......
Keith

[Nickleback]

Hi keith,
I feel for you as I have been through a similar experience, mine was two engine rebuilds in 6 months, 1st was for big end shims/ washers installed the wrong way around in America, so this destroyed the complete bottom end & then the 2nd time around an oil pump failure which was a warranty issue fortunately.
Be brave, pull it apart and fix it once & for all I think that you are in for a engine rebuild

[Hugo]

Yes, a light knock on start up till warm then no symptoms.
This bearing check snowballed from a loose upper timing chain issue, ( gouges in the head ),
which snowballed from a leaking intake valve guide issue on 1 and 2 , which snowballed from a seized carb issue, which started as a miss at idle and some blue smoke. so seven months working on her only to find this.
I had thought it prudent to check the big ends considering the light knock while I had the sump off to change the front seal ( while I had the timing cover off )
Now , I need a break and a beer while I consider my next step.
I had really hoped to just wax it and drive it......
Keith

Boody Hell that's bad, isn't it. The engine was 'rebuilt' by a previous owner I take it? If it were mine I would feel the only option would be to strip the whole thing down & start again. Otherwise I'd never feel confident to drive it.
Just to cheer you up even further, that knock while cold that disappears when warm sounds more like piston slap than a big-end knock to me.

[christopher storey]

No lying I'm afraid. The lower picture looks conclusive to me : there has been foreign material which has come through the oil hole in the journal and scored both the shell and the journal itself. This is absolutely typical of a failure to clean out the crankshaft sludge traps thoroughly, and there is really no viable option but to remove the engine and strip the crankshaft out , clean the traps and regrind the big ends. The even nastier thing I have to tell you is that the scoring may be so deep ( judging from the pic ) on an already reground shaft that either you will have to resort to advanced metallurgy ( metal spraying etc ) or find another crank in decent order to have reground - IIRC the maximum undersize grind allowed is 40 thou

[johnetype]

I agree with what has been said before but you do have options. I assume you've looked at the other big end bearings and this is the worst/only one that's marked?
Based on a similar experience myself many years ago you could replace the bearing shells and oil filter and put the sump back on. That way you can use the car and get the feel of what it's like and what else may need doing.
It's a gamble but you're going to need a crank regrind/new crank anyway. You could do worst damage but you're not going work the engine hard and at least it buys you time until it's the summer and you can perhaps borrow a larger garage to work on the engine.
I got from El Passo to Houston 30 years ago and the engine is still in the car

[Hugo]

Not a bad idea. I actually think it would run pretty well if you did that. Just pretend you didn't see it! I don't think you're going to wreck anything that's not already wrecked.

[keithmac]

Hi All
Yes , the journal is DEEPLY scored but only in the center, the pictures dont do it justice. The oil hole in the lower bearing shell is FULL of metal. I am no auto machinist but the fear of a new crank crossed my mind. What might that cost !!! Having blown the budget buying the car in the first place ....sigh.
You always know these things can happen when you purchase antique cars.
No I have not checked the other big ends. It will be simpler to do with the engine out. It is currently -20c outside and my garage is a tad nippy, ( even for a Canuck! ) I will check all the engine removal threads to see if can learn from the other helpful folks on this site. It looks like a pain, but I suppose I am half way there now with the head off , ancillaries off and sump off.
Wish me luck !
Keith

[christopher storey]

Keith : the slightly better news is that all 4.2 cranks are interchangeable, so that scrap XJ6 cars are the most plentiful source of supply. I don't know how many there might be available in your part of Canada, but in the USA I would have thought you would find plenty of sources - a contact with Jaguar Club of North America would almost certainly give you some leads, and a PM to Peter Crespin on this board might be helpful - he edits one at least of the N American Jaguar magazines . The alternative is to find someone who can build metal back onto that journal

[keithmac]

Thanks Chris,
That is good news ( I am still an E-type newbie ) as I see XK's unlimited no longer sell cranks.
I expect I will be a seasoned veteran when this is over!
Maybe Santa will bring me a crank for Xmas ?
Cheers

[andrewh]

I picked up a crankshaft for £100 which didnt need grinding and has worked perfectly! Hugo comments about not ruining anything else that is not already ruined is not really a very good recommendation . If there is steel swarf rather than white metal running around the engine, all manor of damage could be done. Out with the engine and get it sorted. Anything other than that will end in tears.

[keithmac]

Agreed
Will do. I have slept on it and it is the only thing for it. Here is a pic that may show the depth of the grooves.
Yikes !

[Hugo]

Actually that looks rather odd. The stuff that lives in the centrifugal traps will be very fine, and probably not very abrasive. These deep gouges have been caused by great lumps of swarf floating round in there somewhere. I'm beginning to think the sludge traps may not be the source of the problem after all. Maybe you have something breaking up elsewhere.
Definitely strip down time I would say. The good news is that, unlike Astons for example, these engines (or equivalent Jag engines) are as common as, well, more common than most exotic cars, so spares are plentiful and cheap.

[abowie]

Yes, a light knock on start up till warm then no symptoms.
This bearing check snowballed from a loose upper timing chain issue, ( gouges in the head ),
which snowballed from a leaking intake valve guide issue on 1 and 2 , which snowballed from a seized carb issue, which started as a miss at idle and some blue smoke. so seven months working on her only to find this.
I had thought it prudent to check the big ends considering the light knock while I had the sump off to change the front seal ( while I had the timing cover off )
Now , I need a break and a beer while I consider my next step.
I had really hoped to just wax it and drive it......
Keith

If you have found issues like those there may still be others.

Engine out, full stripdown and rebuild is what I'd do. Never ever trust someone else's "rebuild". That bearing was damaged by swarf because they didn't clean the block properly.

[Nickleback]

Engine out, full stripdown and rebuild is what I'd do. Never ever trust someone else's "rebuild". That bearing was damaged by swarf because they didn't clean the block properly.

Agreed, if they cannot clean it properly and it goes bang, then certainly dont trust anything else, you never know what you will find until you strip it fully, complete rebuild is the only way to go (it will be cheaper in the long run) & as already said if the crank has already been reground and is useless, it would be easy enough to get another, just make sure you can save the block if you want to keep matching numbers ?